MyDD :: Grateful to Hillary for her Comments

Grateful to Hillary for her Comments

by duende, Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:26:24 PM EST

OK. Let's be blunt. There are two unsayable things I've heard from democrats for the last four months.

1. Americans won't vote for a black candidate
2. If Obama is nominated he will be assassinated.

To be fair, I've heard this from covert Obama supporters as much as overt Obama detractors. Bizarrely, and unfortunately, this is something I've heard most often from African American friends. They were sceptical Obama would be electable. And now that fear has gone, they are terrified for Obama, and believe he will be killed.

I know where this all comes from. I went to American schools and colleges in the late 70s early 80s. Both left and right bought into the Godfather/Days of the Condor idea of some ultimate conspiracy: that there were people who would use political violence to control the US, and they were in charge.

So many baby boomer democrats are deformed by the political violence of the 60s/70s. Their world view is coloured by All the President's Men, The Parallax View, and the Zapruder Curve.

Well, I have news. That was a great movie story, but doesn't fit the facts. Cock-up reigns over conspiracy, and if Bush can't even plant WMD in Iraq, then - get over it. The republicans are incompetent. A few men with sniper rifles can't make or remake a state.

I'm not surprised democrats are scared of this. Especially to the baby boomer generation, which include Bill and Hillary. I would also not be surprised, from what I hear, that they have been implying to superdelegates

1. Obama is unelectable
2. If he is nominated, he will be killed

She let it slip here

Q: You don't buy the party unity argument? HRC: I don't. Because, again, I've been around long enough - you know, my husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June. Right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just - I don't understand it, and, you know, there's a lot of speculation about why it is. But --

But listen up.I'm grateful to Hillary for airing this unsayable. I think she's genuinely thinking she's being helpful. It's her fear. Her experience. And now she's aired this conspiracy theory, its outdatedness and perversity (common even in some Obama supporters) can be dispelled.

I don't blame Hillary and Bill. It's common throughout the democratic party, regardless of candidate. It's the biggest fear of my African American friends. (I could post the emails). I'm kind of glad Hillary has said it. I don't blame her. I blame the 60s. But let's kill this conspiracy theory. Americans can't be held hostage to the 60s anymore.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Assassination, Barack Obama, Racism, Zapruder, Robert Kennedy (all tags)

Permalink :: 35 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (2.00 / 1)

lol at "f Bush can't even plant WMD in Iraq, then - get over it"

I remember in late 2003ish I was saying "well if they dont FIND WMD they sure as hell better plant some!"

Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome

by kasjogren on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:29:21 PM EST

WTF? (none / 0)

by CoyoteCreek on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:29:40 PM EST

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

Do you have any evidence Bill and Hillary have been telling the SD if Obama is nominated he will be killed or are you just making this stuff up.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:30:24 PM EST

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

Have you been following the news. Check every blog you can find

Q: You don't buy the party unity argument?

HRC: I don't. Because, again, I've been around long enough - you know, my husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June. Right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just - I don't understand it, and, you know, there's a lot of speculation about why it is. But --

We all know this stuff has been circulating for months. It's finally come out. And I'm glad we can put the 60s and 70s to rest

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

First of all any rational interpretation outside of the hysterical interpretation of some bloggers supporting Obama would conclude she was referring to the lenght of the campaign , infact that was what the question was all about .

And if she talked about any assassination , she was talking about Bobby Kennedy's and she has apologized to the Kennedy's which was the right thing to do , because her bringing up his name wasn't entirely necessary in light of Ted Kennedy's situation.

How the hell does Obama get involved in the whole thing anyway , not everything revolves around him you know.

This is what the board of the paper said :

The Argus Leader's Executive Editor Randell Beck issued the following statement today:

"The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself."

This is what she said in March , in the same vein :

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/ 05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html

Your interpretation of it is a stretch and strains credibility.

Of course this is politics , I don't expect much less.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:39:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

she's wrong. Those campaigns have no relevance to hers. Her husband wrapped it up well before June and Kennedy still needed to fight it out in June. She can't win, Kennedy could, and her husband already had. The only relevant thing she said, the only reason to stick around, was the assassination part. I am pretty sure she knows that. she's really smart right?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:53:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

as she said the same thing in March her only remaining audience are superdelegates.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

as she said the same thing in March her only remaining audience are superdelegates.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

How about the reporters directly asking her the questions ?

Who would think that would her primary audience .

( Sigh....Shakes head lol )

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

Do you believe this was an off the record conversation or do you think that the reporters were going to report her comments?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:46:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

This was an interview streaming live on their website lol.

I was watching it live like thousands of others would have lol.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

you defeated your own argument and you don't even know it

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

The fact that she was answering a question directly from a reporter about the length of process and party unity and she answered it tells me she is giving an answer directly to the person interview and since it was no an off record thing anyone could hear it if its their choice but I am not going to be reading her mind and trying to determine her motives in terms of the politics of it like you are trying to do .

It comes off as a delusional conspiracy.

She has made this statement quite a few times and I would expect the supers already know her position , so I'll just prefer to think she gave an answer that was inartful to the Kennedy family and she has apologized to them.

It has nothing to do with Obama like you want to believe as far as I am concerned.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: though she lied about why she said it today (none / 0)

Nah her explanation isn't even rational. Even if she dropped out, should Obama catch a bullet or get caught screwing a horse, she'd be the nominee. Not anymore of course. She'd be a suspect.

It's a talking point for the supers and that's it.

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unspeakably f*cked up comment (none / 0)

That's a pithy turn of phrase, but "She'd be a suspect" is an incredibly f*cked up thing to say. Based on your previous comments I don't expect you to get the point the diarist is making, but he is not fabricating an underlying truth: People, especially those who lived through the MLK Jr and RFK and JFK assassinations were left with a loss of leaders with almost unlimited potential - at least in our heads and hearts - have expressed their concerns about the safety of Democratic candidates for a very long time. It's the first thing that every single - yes, every single one - of my colleagues and friends and even my patients brought up, and still bring up. Both Barack and Michelle have spoken directly about the possibility and their fears. It was the first time that I had heard Michelle say anything. I immediately liked her for saying it's no more likely than what happens to the Black community on an ongoing basis. In the last week alone, four young Black kids with the opportunity to grow up and live whatever life they chose to live had that opportunity taken away from them from other Black kids.

Add the fact that there are racists and whackos who do think about such things as killing Blacks on an ongoing basis, and it becomes urgently obvious that this is not an issue that should ever be silenced or glossed over. Our kids are being killed in Iraq and on the streets of our cities. How you could attribute that to Hillary Clinton in your bloodlust to see the DLC go down - and what is up with that anyway, Democrat? - is actually unspeakably repulsive. You have your right to your opinion, but honestly I think it's pretty f*cked up with regards to this issue. And if people are trying to draw Obama into some type of responsibility for setting this whole situation up, it's because of inane posts like yours. Unfortunately, you are not unique.

John McCain is a liar

by Jeter on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

This is nothing but character assassination on Bill and Hillary Clinton. To imply they are speculating that Obama will be assassinated... what a bunch of freaking bullshit. You should be ashamed.

by JustJennifer on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:35:12 PM EST

so you believe (none / 0)

her explanation that she said it because Kennedy was on her mind, because he is ill?

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

Are you kidding yourself, or trying to kid me?

Don't tell me you haven't heard this said?

If you do, I'd say you're lying. And all I'm doing is pointing to the inevitable. This was all part of Obama's 'unelectability' argument. We've heard it from Hillary's own mouth. See my post above.

And it's common throughout the democratic party, regardless of candidate. It's the biggest fear of my African American friends. (I could post the emails)

I'm kind of glad Hillary has said it. I don't blame her. I blame the 60s.

But let's kill this conspiracy theory. Americans can't be held hostage to the 60s anymore

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF??? (none / 0)

Do you always blame the 60s for everything??? Is this some kind of rebellion thing you've got going because:

1) You're jealous that you missed out on all that free sex in the 60s?

2) Your parents rub your face in the fact that all the great political battles were fought in the 60s.

3) Your generation isn't politically motivated.

4) You missed out on Woodstock.

by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF??? (none / 0)

I am from the 60s you idiot.

I know exactly what went down, and see what is happening here.

I blame the right wing for the violence, but every trauma victim bears the scars of their oppressor.

So please. Spare me the history lessons. I happen to believe the post 60s generations live up to our ideals much better than we did.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for elevating the discourse (none / 0)

to name calling.

I think you are making sweeping generalisations about generations. Generations should never be compared because each occupied a different but specific time and space. Each generation adapts, learns, builds upon, rejects based upon what came before it. You don't just throw out an entire period of time, or call it irrelevant to now. If we're interested in uniting people in this country, generations must understand and respect each other. We move forward in this nation, together, not separately as representatives of our generation.

by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for elevating the discourse (none / 0)

I think you had four bullet points of name calling, all premised on the idea I was sad to miss the 60s.

I think idiot was the right call based on your false assumption.

But we have a more considered conversation downthread, and I follow your points up there.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was sarcastic up thread (2.00 / 1)

Guilty as charged.

by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:15:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was sarcastic up thread (none / 0)

Kudos to you for owning up

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:18:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF??? (none / 0)

Do you always blame the 60s for everything??? Is this some kind of rebellion thing you've got going because:

1) You're jealous that you missed out on all that free sex in the 60s?

2) Your parents rub your face in the fact that all the great political battles were fought in the 60s.

3) Your generation isn't politically motivated.

4) You missed out on Woodstock.

by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF??? (none / 0)

Double post: chance for a double reply

We're getting old. We're getting less relevant.

Get over it.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It doesn't matter (none / 0)

what age you are. We all vote; we all pay taxes. That's not being irrelevant, my friend. Yes, the 60's are over. As well as the 70's, 80s, and 90s. No one is trying to replay those periods, but what happened during those years doesn't just disappear onto the pages of history books. What happened goes forward, and we build on some of it, and leave the rest at the side of the road. To totally dismiss the 60s (or any other period of time) is dangerous for a nation. Those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it.

by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It doesn't matter (none / 0)

And the weight of the previous generations, weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living.

Marx and Hegel had contradictory things to say about this.

I think the history which SHOULD be learned, is the history of the 90s, and the tacit fear of the right that led to triangulation.

The right, finally gaining power in congress, blew itself up.

In that way it's a new era I believe.

But thanks for responding to my post reasonably. Sometimes it's worth going through the emotions and getting to some common ground.

I'm sure you're hoping, essentially, for the same things I am.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

Cynicism and hate is all some of you folks have to offer, this is straight out of the Obama-Rove playbook.

by Iceblinkjm on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:40:11 PM EST

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

that's called projection

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

Absolutely not. I'm not blaming Hillary or Bill. I'm blaming American political culture, especially as I experienced it in the 70s and 80s. All sides are deformed by this fear, and as I said in my diary, my black friends in the US fear this more than most. It's the legacy of JFK, MLK, and RFK. And I'm kind of glad Hillary has expressed this fear herself. I genuinely believe she believes she's doing good, and preparing for the worst.

But I also know she's spoken to superdelegates about these unsayables.

And I'm glad she's finally aired them.

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

I got some advice for Obama and his supporters. Don't shit where you eat.

by Iceblinkjm on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:48:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Character Assassination and Acquiescence (none / 0)

please explain

John McCain on social security.

by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, brit... (none / 0)

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:46:53 PM EST

Re: Oh, brit... (none / 0)

Oops. Have I said something wrong?

Sricki. Don't tell me you haven't heard this. Reread the diary. I'm not attacking Hillary. I'm just glad this is out there. I here it most from my scared African American friends.

You americans are so polite. We Brits have nothing to lose

The Moose is Loose!

by duende on Fri May 23, 2008 at 07:50:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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