Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the People

To understand the complexities, and moral and political issues in seating and counting the delegates from the DNC disapproved primaries in Florida and Michigan, people have sought all kinds of analogies.

Usually these are sports analogies: Bob Johnson, lately lamented, wrote a great diary using baseball teams. Others have sought metaphors in basketball or football, and the useful analogy usually revolves around changing the rules midway through a contest or at the far extreme shooting the referee.

I'd love more and better analogies. But in the meantime, how about this one?

Imagine a blog site, dedicated to progressive causes, that encourages democracy and participation. One of the basic tenets this 'primary election' blogsite - let's call it MYPE - is that it is a community. People become users or 'voters' merely by turning up. There are some 'trusted users' - perhaps registered democrats - who have slightly more access to this democracy than others, but by an large it works by one person one vote.

Now, just as voters are asked to vote for candidates during an election, so too can users of this website rec diaries. It's not winner take all, but there's always one diary at the top of the rec list, even though another one might be marginally below. Everyone accepts the rules as they enter: they know that while it may not be their favorite diary, the one at the top reflects the popular will.

Now what if, unbeknown to you as a voter or user of this imaginary website, your powers to rec diaries or vote had suddenly disappeared. You're told that it's a technical error or something. The recc'ing ability doesn't work. Some rules have been broken; you can't vote for your favorite diary for that day. You're told the tally won't be changed, so you no longer visit MYPE for the next twenty four hours. You don't turn up for the primary.

But then, a few days later, the truth emerges. Some people kept their rec'ing powers after all, and they were voting overwhelmingly for one diary or candidate. When you discover this, and complain about it, you're accused of breaking the guidelines yourself by even making the criticism. Besides, all those people who kept their rec'ccing powers are happy. Would you want to selectively disenfranchise them?

So there we have the problem, and it's clear to me, using this analogy for (or of) MI and FL, that the rules have been twisted, and it amounts to a form of vote rigging. The more subtle ramifications of this analogy might be missed by some people, but others will understand the consequences

And there's always the danger that even someone pointing out this problem who actually be banned from the MYPE for good (i.e. not seated at the convention).

But just as that would be a disastrous day for a democratic blog, such an outcome would be terrible for the democratic party.

I hope a lot of people can, in the light of this analogy, sign up for a fairer system, more representative of the will of the people.

For obvious reasons - to some - this may be my last diary



Display:


Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (2.00 / 2)

Any better analogies people? I'd love better ones from supporters of either remaining candidate


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:25:54 PM EST

Let me try (2.00 / 2)

one of my country colloquialisms.

The situation is like this, two different sides are trying to raise a barn and the county sheriff (who has a severe bias in this) keeps pulling members away from one team accusing them of cheating.  Both of the deputies are good people and go after both sides for cheaters.

How does that fit?


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me try (2.00 / 1)

Was just about to mojo you for this and then - wow - noticed I had a software glitch and couldn't do it anymore.

How spooky is that?

Anyhow, howabout having a look inside that dark empty haunted looking house over there, Student Guy. I'm sure nothing will happen if you go in the basement. Especially if you start the sequence making out with your girlfriend...


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:50:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (none / 0)

It didn't help that today in a diary I said that the county sheriff (continuing my country metaphor here) was a bit corrupt, but not as bad as "steal the county treasury" Smith (Ben Smith over at politico), [non metaphorically I said that Jerome=hack though not as bad as BS.]

I think I am wandering towards the house, girlfriend at my side...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:56:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah (2.00 / 1)

I saw how that goldmine was stolen, but it was also first claimed by the sheriff of Deadwood, I think he's a Cossack or some other such Russian pedigree.

But hey. A bad sheriff does not a bad town make. I remember, four years back, when there were several sheriffs around this town, and it was good.

Nothing lasts forever, so always worth sticking around


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:30:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice use of (2.00 / 1)

methaphors.  

Recced


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:31:22 PM EST

Mich and FLA, an unfortunate situation... (2.00 / 3)

...made exponentally worse when Hillary decided that she no longer agreed with her own aggreement that they wontt count.

Made even way worse by Hillary accusing Obama of disenfranchisement, even though any informed Dem knew it was not true.

made even worser by MyDD harping and harping on the false premise that Obama was somehow wrong or responsible for Mich and FLA's Disenfranchisement.


by Silence Do Good on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:38:26 PM EST

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (2.00 / 2)

Amusing, but not entirely fair. The lack of transparency as to why people have lost recc'ing privileges has resulted in some conspiracy theories developing. I call them conspiracy theories because the only way they'll be proven is if the site admins admit to it. I don't believe there's some conscious effort to manipulate the rec list that involves "disenfranchising" Obama supporters. I've had my privileges appear and disappear without explanation and I know it's irritating but I don't see the point in investing in an unproveable theory that the admins are targeting certain people. It just generates more ill will and I don't think we need more of that.


by Mobar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:40:19 PM EST

Nah it is the diary pimping over (none / 0)

on Hillary is 44 and the Hillary Bloggers websites.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course I am talking about my (none / 0)

experience on myPE here, I have the most livid imagination at times...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (2.00 / 2)

I don't know where you get the idea that this anything about MYDD? I'm just talking about the principle.

When it comes to the real issues of vote rigging, well, I can tell you - no conspiracy theories are needed. There's plenty of hard proof.


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (none / 0)

Oh, I was referring to my hypothetical experience at MYPE. I apologize for the confusion.


by Mobar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (none / 0)

No apologies needed. It's just the problem of dealing with progressive democracy at a meta level, something we are struggling with every moment we are here. wink

There was an issue about two weeks ago. Let's call it the caucus states issue. I was very heavily promoting the idea that these should be added to the metric, and I suddenly found myself completely disenfranchised. In fact, I had to reregister myself as democratic in another closed caucus. There are many others in this category. So my experience is, there's not necessarily a conspiracy, merely an overweening desire to have reality conform to one's outlook. Whatever it takes

Ouch. I'm really running out of metaphor here, but I hope you get my drift


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (2.00 / 1)

PS I would Mojo you. But those powers disappeared last week.


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (2.00 / 1)

I have always wondered and still do if the moral outrage over MI and FL would exist had this Primary effectively ended on Super Tuesday as was predicted? My sense and I may well be wrong is that no it would not. No one would care.

If the moral outrage was truly honest there should have been a hew and cry when the ruling on MI and FL was handed down. Not when all of sudden thing were not turning out as planned.

Now in the end FL and MI will probably get seated not fully since some punishment will have to be meted out or rules become meaningless. Without rules there would be chaos.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:14:44 PM EST

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (none / 0)

Absolutely agree. Now reverse your reasoning, and look at the analogy


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (none / 0)

Here's my issue with you analogy. It makes the assumption that the rules got twisted. If the rules were out there for all to see including all of us how were they twisted? If we failed to pay attention or read the rules the fault lies with us.

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/highl ights_of_t.php

The analogy here would be if I were to be stopped for speeding and tell the officer I didn't see the speed limit sign. I would only have a reasonable defense if I could prove that the speed limit sign was indeed obscured. I'm doomed to pay the fine if I just ignored it.

I may be slow, ( just ask my kids )but in your analogy some kept their rec powers. I don't see the correlation.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (none / 0)

The correlation is reversed. So is the analogy.


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (none / 0)

This is true, and it's the reason that Senator Clinton left her name on the ballot after agreeing to not participate in the election. She expected to walk away with the nomination handily on Feb 5th and would have as the nominee asked for the delegations to be sat anyway. It also led to the lovely bit of sound that we all love quoting and her campaign and her supporters like to pretend never existed where she says the election wouldn't count for anything, she was defending violating the agreement by leaving her name on the ballot.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of the (none / 0)

Pssst. This diary isn't exactly snark. It's real target however is not what it seems.

Only saying this because I don't want you to waste your debating skills and time on something which is already argued elsewhere


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:09:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Selective Disenfranchisement: (none / 0)

Any analogy based upon the premise that the decision to strip MI and FL of its delegates was done by one campaign, or for some nefarious purpose, or was done in secret, is ridiculous.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:26:22 PM EST

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: (none / 0)

This analogy is OF COURSE completely ridiculous. Until, of course, you look beyond MI and FL and think back to the analogy


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are we a community? (none / 0)

I, too, lost recommending and comment-rating powers the day after I recommended a Bob Johnson diary.

Though I was a relative newcomer (having registered about a month ago), I was an active participant in this community, and almost every one of my comments had been up-rated.

Since I became a second-class citizen, my participation has largely waned - why bother to post on a site where others can rate my comments at will, but I cannot do the same?

Lately, there has been some talk of healing the rift in the Democratic party brought about by the extended primary, and actions by some of the more fervent supporters of both candidate.

Will MyDD, in the spirit of concordia and brotherhood and Democratic unity, reverse this earlier selective disenfranchisement and restore us to full privileges?

I call upon the admins to take a positive step for democratic unity, and to reverse an earlier injustice that was perhaps done in a moment of rage; to restore each and every one of the users who have made an honest effort to try to be a part of this community.


Graveyards of Illinois - http://www.graveyards.com/
by MattHucke on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:00:11 PM EST

Re: Are we a community? (none / 0)

Thanks. My experience, and my feelings entirely. Either we're a community, or in a Potempkin Village. And if the latter, let's at least know about it.


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of... (none / 0)

The popular vote argument just isn't going to be that compelling. If you have to put an asterisk after your vote argument to define how you arrived at that number you've already lost the argument. The fact that the only way she will lead in the popular vote, which in itself isn't even certain, is by the inclusion of contests where one candidate wasn't on the ballot and neither could campaign is just horridly flawed. Disallowing campaigning is death to an insurgent candidate who is under pressure to get in front of voters and sway them to their position. Without an ability to do that they never go anywhere. And an election people were told wouldn't count is no election at all since large numbers of voters won't show up.

Even if she wins the popular vote metric with the including of michigan and florida it isn't going to sway superdelegates. It will be used as cover by superdelegates she already has supporting her to not switch, but it won't bring in new ones. Just look at the superdelegate endorsements she's gotten over the last week, they are almost all either add ons in states she's won or congresspeople whose districts she's won. And that's likely to be the only new superdelegate endorsements she gets going forward absent a colapse in the Obama campaign.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:04:30 PM EST

Re: Selective Disenfranchisement: the Will of... (none / 0)

Read between the lines. This isn't just about MI and FL. In fact they are the analogy, not the other way round.

Having said that, it was a considered post, and I agree with every word.


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Look at the misspeaks (none / 0)

and active imaginations here and I think you find this is really about myPE (or is it some other capital letters I am so forgetful these days...)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:33:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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